Chapter 4 - "Lost and Found"
Robert and Scott talk business. Cast: Adam Cross -- Scott AJ Pinkerton -- Tony Nathan Morse -- Robert Music -- Kevin MacLeod
Scoring
Weighted Community Vote
Weighted Judges' Vote
Total Score
20.6%
+
0.0%
=
20.6%
Comments
Let me guess you'll meet under an over-pass... Seems a little familiar
since when were there highway overpasses in a park?
Hey, I'll bite on that lure. Though it's not a conscious effort, I'm certainly willing to tip my hat to the Trunked team and acknowledge that not only did we enjoy their entry from last round, but we also chose material similar to what they themselves elected for the plot. Apparently, both our groups think this Rootclip should move in the same direction, albeit with different characters.
Kidnapping is certainly a common film subject. So are shady deliveries. We wouldn't have selected this idea had we felt it wasn't the proper progression of the story's events. You may not agree, though; the other two entries don't.
Variety is the spice of life, and more ideas means more creativity and entertainment. :)
"Let me guess you'll meet under an over-pass... Seems a little familiar"
"since when were there highway overpasses in a park?"
Oh ho ho
i like where this is headed :)
haha, i love the way scott treats tony in your videos!
Obviously we both want to win, but like I said before; what I care about more than winning is truly knowning what people think about my work. So, I challenge you to not publicize your entry. let the traffic and usual visitors decide this one. Can I have your word that you won't ask friends and family to register on the site to just help you win. Arn't you curious what the general public really thinks!? Come on, what'a say?
D:
To be honest, I didn't publicize it beyond my family and VERY immediate friends this time. I'm the guy who was able to rake in quite a few votes (though, of course, I'm not saying that all of those votes were non-native rootclip people, especially since I got way more votes than I asked friends), and I'll be in the Adirondacks for the entire voting period.
So, challenge accepted, and hopefully when I come back in five days (I won't be here even to see who wins :argh:, I'll have to make some calls) we'll see how things turn out. I'm pretty happy with this submission, and your submission is pretty good as well, so this should be a good vote race for those able to witness it.
With all due respect, Jay...
Youtube is what your challenge is for. Judged competitions are what your challenge is for. Demo reels are what your challenge is for. Viral marketing and distribution-based competitions, however, are the antithesis of your proposal.
I was (and still am) a major proponent to strongly recommend the installment of judging in place of voting, because I do think good work goes unrewarded frequently when votes are counted instead of scores.
That said, we're fighting with targets on our backs from last round. We're also competing on a site that relies on new visitors. How would the owners of Rootclip feel when they're shelling out $500 each round for people to keep the site to themselves and not tell anyone it exists? Part of the game that we're unwittingly playing is to help promote the site and garner traffic! If Rootclip can afford to host these contests, I think we can afford to play their rules and drag in new voters. It's part of expansion and survival!
And of course, any voter can vote for any video(s), regardless of which link they got. The friends I send the link to, more often than not, watch every single entry.
We would be happy to do little or no publicity work, but we also want to stay competitive. So, we're not going all-out, but we're not flopping on our backs and playing dead, either. And naturally, we have invested interest in keeping the story in our hands, with one chapter left before the final.
I respect your intentions, though. Vidopp.com offers a lot of contests and competitions; you may want to look through them for other chances to test your mettle as well. I check the list often. :)
@Fungi
After some thought, maybe there needs to be a more qualified method of voting. Pick five areas like overall style, story relevance, acting, cinematography, and script, then rate the video from one to five. This would be a better indicator of objectiveness, combined with untallied votes till the winner is announced.
Categories would be interesting and probably slightly more accurate, since even enemies are willing to generally concede on a single point ("Your sound didn't suck too bad..." etc.), so voters would be able to voice their thoughts more specifically than just, "Want it to win" and "Don't want it to win."
The blind voting could be interesting as well, although I think the fear of cheating will remain -- at least we get to see how a team gets to 200 votes right now, whereas finishing and finding out you lost by 100 votes might be a bit shocking and not helpful in alleviating suspicion (maybe it'd impact fairness, though? Only one way to find out.)
It seems like everything's on the up-and-up at the moment. Hopefully it'll still seem like that in three days. >_<
@FungusRidden & @davidmoon
I like the categories idea a lot, but what's to stop people from voting 5 stars (or whatever they use) for every category? It would definitely give better feedback to the submitters, but I'm sure it could still be gamed.
What if there was the popular user vote and that video got a prize, then there was judging and that winner also got a prize AND became the next chapter in sort of a "director's cut" or something like that? I mean...maybe Rootclip could have 2 stories running at once if the judges picked a different video than what the user community picked. IDK...just a thought.
I think being able to see the votes encourages cheating. If I'm down by 20, I just need to come up with 21 new accounts and vote. With blind numbers, it's harder to devise a strategy outside of mass votes - which would be easier to spot a cheating trend.
As you said, voting over multi categories would offer a more specific critic of the clip, and those who want to participate again would know where they need improvement. However, to be fair, you might have to require all the videos to be rated to be counted.
I meant .. more specific "critique" in the above post ... typing too fast.
A Root spin-off is an interesting idea (although I'm not sure if there's enough entries to make that work without the main contest suffering).
I think a panel defeats the viral nature of this site model. The key is not to deviate too much from the original model and to keep things simple.
yawn
I agree, Mimaw. I'd rather do a Guns Blazing chapter, but we didn't want to stretch the narrative into unnatural places. :< As a full video at the end of six chapters, hopefully it will flow between scenes well enough but keep enough intensity to not have the same Yawn effect in full.
I, for one, am more interested in explosions than chit-chat. :<
Then you should have done a guns blazing chapter. There was no reason why you couldn't have. It is your video, you can do whatever you want. I have to agree with mimaw I just got bored watching this video and why was the rope so loose on the guy? It seems like he would have slipped out if it was that loose.
Maybe he will slip out. Throw your hat in and work some magic! ;)
Not to spoil anything for the future, but... narrative structure tends to work in a system of peaks, my friend. We're approaching the climax of the movie, and you can't just crack open your best eggs in any order. Not if you want to save up for where the drama really NEEDS to count, right before a conclusion.
And by the way, this is -OUR- video, not mine; it isn't about going willy-nilly with a camera and making standalone movies, but about shooting scenes that will string together with the work other entrants have put in. You may not agree, but I feel a certain responsibility to be helpful and attempt to mesh my work with that of Hungry Mother, the Root team, and whoever wins the next two. One full movie, six separate scenes, all coherent and continuous.
But, your comments are not unfounded. We definitely could've made this more intense. :< Good to know what the audience wants changed! We'll keep it in mind for Chapter 5.
If you truly wanted to mesh the work you would have taken all the elements from the first two videos not just the characters, such as the ridiculous voice overs, and the slightly comedic aspect, but as you said, it is your video and you did win the 3rd which did kind of cancel out those things. I am not hating, just saying if you wanted to make it a musical, then go for it, there are no rules, but characters and wardrobe. As long as you don't end the story in the 4th chapter, then anything goes. Since this is all amateur film making, why not try something different because it helps teach you how to make things better.
Thank you ManBear! Your words fit my feeling exact! Why not go all out??? It's what make this worth it. Each time I have entered the contest, filming the scenes was like a party. For this entry, half way through the shoot we were all drunk. (hope that doesn't lose me any votes) If you look at the shelving behind Scott during the security cam view, you can see a can of Miller High Life behind him. He would drink between takes. Come work for me, my set ROCKS!
i just hope you spend your earnings on something more worthwhile than alcohol, because i'd hate to see prize money blown away on something like that.
Manbearpig I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Why would we do a guns blazing chapter when the storyline would look ridiculous having one right there? We tried to work the story to a point where we could do one--for every destination, there is a journey, am I right?
This might be amateur film making, but we don't need to make it into an amateur storyline by throwing in random, terribly thought out ideas, kthxbai
If you had liquor on the set, then you no doubt had more fun than we did, except we took a Smash Brothers break between scenes. ;)
Manbearpig, I apologize for omitting the ridiculous voice-overs. You seem to be terribly stricken about that. But we just so happen to have the characters together in one room now. Are you honestly suggesting that it's better to have characters stand together and think to themselves instead of, um, communicating with one another? Because last time a chapter had two characters face-to-face... spoken dialogue was used. And the "slightly comedic aspect..." I think we've remained extremely faithful to the prior chapters!
Remember, this is showing at a film festival. I make an awful lot of films on my own that I have a blast with. But I also want the professional world to be impressed with our work, however impossible that may be. Whether we're involved in "amateur filmmaking" or not (does KRN's material look like the work of an amateur to you?), I think it's important to try to COLLABORATE as well as compete.
Otherwise, Robert and Tony and Scott would be dancing on tables singing right now. Michael Moore would have nightmares for a week.
Sorry for the double-post, I felt like I was a bit caustic in that last post, and I want to make it clear that we DON'T have hard feelings about this. I'm glad this conversation is on our comments and not his, because I don't want discussion about narrative overshadowing the great job he did both in his video and in his advertising.
Also, I don't mean to give the impression we don't take what you say to heart, ManBear (or anyone else). I trust your comments and think that modifying our strategy can improve our work. We'll take your advice and try to be a bit more creative next round. :)
Sorry again if I crashed down kinda hard on anyone. I'm apparently very passionate about filmmaking discussions... <_<;
SomethingsAwry, I suggested a guns blazing chapter because that is what FungusRidden said he would like to do. I realize that it could be a stretch, but are movies that take that extra leap on harder and more wierd to do usually better than most. Guns Blazing can happen anytime you want it to, you just have to make us believe that it should be there or that it was worth being there. Every chapter can be an incredible masterpiece if that is what the film maker wants. Movies can be whatever you make them especially here on this website, you just have to make us believe that it was worth it. So I say guns blazing could have been done because someone thought it would be better. I understand the group collaboration, so if not everyone wants to do it, then tough luck, but I do not think it would be terribly thought if executed and shot well, but I am always for random because it usually pays off or is interesting. These stories are made so they could go anywhere they don't have to follow a pattern. If they did then the people at rootclip would give more rules, so what I am saying is let the ideas fly do what you want, if you are a good film maker then you can make it work. Sorry I am not very good at all the computer speech, so what does kthxbai mean? If it is an inside joke, then I understand if you don't say.
FungusRidden, you do not need to apologize, because I do not take it offensively, and I hope none of you take what I am saying offensively, this is a friendly discussion on film making, we are here to learn. By the way I do honestly think Michael Moore would rather see people dancing on a tables and singing, he seems like an odd guy. I would also say that KRN movies are amateur I do think his most recent movie was well done, but still amateur, Nothing against KRN, I just think it is kind of weird how everyone is so obsessed with him.
1) I agree with SomethingsAwry, complete and wholeheartedly on the whole not taking the story into random, and in my personal opinion, just plain stupid directions. 2) I agree with manbearpig about KRN. I don't get the infatuation either.
Me neither. haha, thanks for the compliment anyways, FungusRidden.
I'm, by definition alone, an amateur. and fiercebearpig is, by definition, a buzzkill. :)
There's a difference between infatuation and admiration. There's also a difference in attitudes going around about him -- the "HEEEEY, DIRTBAG!" people, and the "That guy's got amazing production values..." people.
I think that might summarize the difference, and whether we're on the Dirtbag team or not (XD), I think most of us (all of us?) can at least pitch him the latter and admit that his visual work is a step over what an "amateur" can bring to the table.
For that matter, I would vouch that ALL of us are a step above being amateurs. But maybe only in specific areas of filmmaking.
by "by definition alone" i meant that it's one of many other ways I'm an amateur. Just clearing that up for all the haters out there, ready to pounce... with their scary pig hooves and bear claws....
... great, thanks. Way to totally ruin my whole post, KRN. XD
LET ME KNOW NEXT TIME YOU GO DEPRECIATING YOURSELF SO I HAVE TIME TO SAVE SOME FACE. ;_;
And I still hold that amateurs don't even get their videos out on the web. And also, like anyone does their best work on a video that lasts 90 seconds, anyway... ;)
by definition, i'm definitely in the "admiration" group that Fungus mentions, because I do see great production values in KRN's work. however, its the "infatuation" i dont understand, which is why i chose to use that work. the "hey, dirtbag" people are beyond my understanding.
i meant "use that word." they need to make a way to edit your own posts >_<
sorry fungus... I was using a different dictionary. I think we all fit into definition 1:
amateur - engaged in as a pastime
but very few here, I think, are definition 2:
amateur - lacking professional skill or expertise
but the point i was trying to make was you're a sweet dude for not being a jerk to your competition and giving some props where you feel they're due. Thanks ;)
in a perfect world
you have WAY too much time on your hands XD
...
It may be time for you to go back to making movies now. XD
Yeah! make a movie, Dirtbag!
it's just fun to say XD